The Hillary As VP Balancing Act

Hillary for VP or not for VP, that is the question on many people's minds. The latest Clinton party line on the matter goes something like this:

I personally would like to see Barack Obama pick her as his VP but it's not my decision, it's not Hillary Clinton's decision, it's Barack Obama's decision to make.

In other words, advocacy without pressure.

Interestingly, after Hillary Clinton's speech on Saturday, even a prominent Obama supporter has jumped on board:

The Rev. Jesse Jackson said today that Sen. Hillary Clinton has made "a powerful case" for her candidacy for vice president. [...]

"As he surveys the field, it must be someone who is compatible with him philosophically, someone who is loyal to his agenda and someone who brings a constituency that matters and the capacity to become the next president, as the Constitution requires should disaster strike," Jackson said, and Clinton meets those requirements. "She may not be the only one who does, but she certainly does.

"She starts with 18 million votes," he said. "She starts having gained a following among Latinos and she has substantial support among African Americans. ... Women will be looking to her place in the scheme of things."

That is pretty much the crux of the "for" argument. As the latest AP/Yahoo poll found:

...the New York senator is viewed significantly more favorably than Obama by many white Democrats, Hispanics and Catholics. She carried all those groups decisively against Obama in this year's Democratic primaries, exit polls of voters showed. [...]

Clinton does 23 points better than Obama against McCain among Hispanics, 18 points better with Catholics and 14 points better with elderly whites. Obama is far stronger among blacks, the young and college graduates.

But there is a fairly compelling argument against the idea as well, which is part philosophical -- as Chris Cilizza puts it: "It runs directly counter to Obama's central message (i.e. 'change only comes by sending new people to Washington')" -- and part related to the perceived baggage Clinton would bring to the ticket.

Again, from the AP/Yahoo poll:

A substantial 32 percent of independents strongly dislike Clinton, 10 points more than say so about Obama, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll. Independents, a group that both Obama and McCain won during their party primaries this year, comprised a quarter of voters in the 2004 election and have been closely contested in every presidential election since 1992.

In addition, 67 percent of Republicans have very unfavorable views of Clinton, 24 percentage points more than feel that way about Obama. Among conservatives the spread is similar -- 58 percent say they feel very negatively about her, 18 points more than say so about Obama.

But there are also compelling theories that should mute some of this concern. First of all, there is the proposition that by the time the Republicans are done with him, Barack Obama just may be as polarizing a figure as Hillary Clinton is. As Republican pollster Whit Ayres says:

"Obama is plenty energizing enough for Republicans and conservatives," he said.

And as for the ever so important independents, Chris Bowers makes the case that appealing to them is secondary to appealing to Democrats:

From 2004 to 2006, Democrats actually made more gains among self-identified Democrats than they made among self-identified Independents. Now, in 2008, because partisan self-identification has shifted starkly in favor of Democrats, Barack Obama has much more to gain for self-identified Democrats than he has from self-identified Republicans and Independents combined.

Ultimately, I think the case for Hillary is less about mending fences (I actually trust that most Hillary supporters will get behind Barack once she begins to expand on the strong endorsement she gave him on Saturday around the country) than increasing the chances of winning in November -- that should be Barack Obama's number one mission with his VP choice and my personal feeling is that Clinton would be a net plus in that regard. Indeed, the latest CNN poll shows an Obama/Clinton ticket beating McCain/Romney by 6, while Obama on his own beats McCain only by 3. But Clinton supporters should make peace with the likelihood that she will not be on the ticket. For one thing, Obama can win without Clinton but also, really, wouldn't her time be perhaps better spent in another more useful role such as in Obama's cabinet or even as one of the key implementers of the Obama agenda in the senate?



Display:


Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

All of which means that if Obama/Edwards or Obama/Clark or Obama/Anyone polls better than Clinton (as far as the electoral map, of course), they should be the choice.

This isn't about Clinton, and it's only about Obama insofar as Obama is the one who'll be winning or losing in November.

I was/am pro-Unity ticket. But the polling for Edwards makes me wonder. A lot. To those who dismiss that polling -- and any VP polling -- as being merely about name recognition, well, that's the stupidest things I've ever heard. Who has more name recognition than Clinton? If she still gets beat out as a VP candidate by anyone else she shouldn't be on the ticket.

We'll see how the numbers play out.


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:08:52 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I think many would welcome Edwards as VP... Except Edwards.  he has been adament about not wanting it.  Just as Gore said he wasn't goign to run, unless Edwards says he wants to be considered, Id take him at his word.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

polling does not have edwards helping obama with blue collar


by NY Writer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Electoral math doesn't care about the building blocks of victory. At all.


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aside From Philosophical Reasons Against Hillary! (2.00 / 1)

There is the following:

1. You cannot simply add her strength to his and say "boy, now we're really strong." A lot of her supporters won't support Obama for various reasons:

a. "He's Blaaaaack!"

b. They are conservative white "Reagan Dems" who were drawn to Hillary's middle-of-the-road positions, for whom Obama "is a librul! Librul! Librul!"

(Of course Hillary is also a "librul" but at least she's not "blaaaack!"

2. People vote for President, not VP. Exhibit "A" - Dan Quayle v. Lloyd Bensten -- "you're no Jack Kennedy." If ever a VP was considered totally inadequate to become President, it was Quayle. Yet it made no difference in 1988.

I think we can safely ignore all polling about who voters would prefer as VP right now. I follow politics a LOT more closely than the majority of people, but I didn't know who several of the proposed VPs were even.

What do I know about Sebelius? Not much. How much does the average voter know?
"Say What?" "Huh?" "How the hell would I know?"

Comes to mind.


by Cugel on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Just an example that made me think twice about a unity ticket.


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

"In the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update (based on June 6-8 data), 53% of Democrats say Obama should pick his former nomination rival for vice president, while 36% say he should choose someone else."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107764/Gallup -Daily-Obama-Takes-Lead-Over-McCain-48-4 2.aspx

"A newly released CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll found that if Obama does not select Clinton as his running mate, 22 percent of her supporters would stay home this fall..

It does indicate that unmotivated Clinton supporters may be a bigger risk to Obama than defections from the Clinton camp to McCain."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/09/c linton.supporters/index.html


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

That number is irrelevant. People may want Clinton when asked, but if they'll vote for another candidate to a greater extent that opinion is meaningless.


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

The VP pick is irrelevant. It never influences the final outcome. Last time a VP candidate help the top of the ticket was LBJ in 1960.

Every election we hear the same bs. Who will help the ticket. Nobody can help the nominee. VP candidate can hurt but cannot help.

Lloyd Bentsen was supposed to help Dukakis win the south. Didn't work. McGovern's pick Shriver was going to bring in Catholic voters. Didn't work. Edwards was going to help Kerry in the South. Didn't work. Holy Joe was going to help Gore with "values voters". Didn't work.

It never works. No VP candidate can bring in voters.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

Surprising to see the many who don't acknowledge Hillary's voting bloc.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 3)

Hillary isn't just any potential VP candidate, finishing as the closest and strongest runner-up in history, and posessing dedicated and enthusiastic supporters fully equal in number to the nominee.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:14:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right. (none / 0)

I don't think she needs Obama's helping end whatever future political career she might have--she does a good enough job of that on her own.


by GeeMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:31:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

You think Lyndon Johnson being on the ticket didn't help JFK with Southern Democrats? Or that Dick "grownup supervision" Cheney being on the ticket didn't help Republican voters vote for Frat Boy?


by 1arryb on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

You keep saying that VP never impacts the outcome.  This is no ordinary year.  There has never been a campaign like this before in my 50 years where supporters have been so close and loyal to their candidate as Clinton's are to her, and the fear that they will not vote for the primary winner has never been so deep.   This whole campaign and election season has not followed historical patterns.  If Obama picks the same old type of candidate that usually gets picked, a white male, no it will not impact it, because noone will care or know anything about them. Hillary is not replacable if he picks a white female and that will not resolve his difficulties with alot of demographics. If he picks Clinton, there will be more history made.


by Scotch on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can we go one day? (none / 0)

Just one....without VP talk!  I'm beggin' ya ;)


by Deadalus on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can we go one day? (2.00 / 1)

Why not just ignore them? No one's forcing you. I rarely read or comment in a diary about Obama.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Question:  If one is a cabinet member, would they have to resign their Senate seat?  Or could they Serve in both capacities?


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:12:51 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

resign


by NY Writer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

She would have to resign.

Everybody who wants her out of politics can stop wet-dreaming. She is not going to resign her senate seat to serve "at the pleasure" of Obama as his lackey in some cabinet seat, especially after having to go through a confirmation hearing where all of the old anti-Clinton stuff will be regurgitated ad nauseum.

The suggestion is ludicrous Obama Campaign FUD.

I'm not a supporter of the "Unity Ticket" either. As a practical matter I don't think it helps either one of them. As a philosophical matter, I don't think it helps the Democratic Pary.

Obama and his half of the party need to sink or swim on their own. This battle is all far from over and goes beyond Clinton and Obama. It's about the soul of the party, or rather, whether it wants to have a soul anymore.

As for Obama's side, they don't need Clinton's racist white and hispanic voters so they don't need to offer them squat; apparently young evangelicals and Catholics are going to get it over the hump. That's what I heard anyway.


by herb the verb on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 11:53:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The VP is not meant to appease Democrats; (none / 0)

it's meant to attract Independents while defending the President. In the end, I'm willing to wager the VP chosen will be one thought best to attract Independent and swing voters to vote Obama in November.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:14:09 PM EST

Its going to be Mark Warner (none / 0)

for those reasons and a few more.


by turtlescrubber on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:44:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The VP is not meant to appease Democrats; (1.00 / 0)

How many Independents did Gore bring to Clinton?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The VP is not meant to appease Democrats; (none / 0)

I think this year, Obama is doing that job.  The VP this year seems to be to attract the dems who didn't vote for Obama


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The VP is not meant to appease Democrats; (none / 0)

History is not encouraging in that respect.

Every time there was a close primary election the eventual nominee lost in November.

* Ford/Reagan in 1976 - Ford defeated in November

* Carter/Kennedy n 1980 - Carter defeated in November

* Mondale/Hart in 84 - Mondale defeated in November


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

It runs directly counter to Obama's central message (i.e. 'change only comes by sending new people to Washington')

You know, with the CHANGE meme, Obama did a great thing. He won. But he won attracting only half the Democratic party--with the change meme

Fair to say that the rest of the electorate is not waiting for that message. It's obsolete as a way to win new people. Solid for those he already has.

Obama's supporters are very optimistic, and that's great, and they fantasize about winning GOP's and Indi's, but the reality is he needs to win all of her voters, and needs to win all those who were anti-GOP. There are lots of people who won't vote for a black man, or would hesitate, and the shallow resume issues are coming up again for the GE. Believe me that he's not winning the deep south, so the question is, how does he win PA, OH, FL? They're all gong to be really tough for him, as for any Democrat, and the election will be real tough without them. She's his best chance.

He'll pick who he wants, and his political future will rise or fall according to the wisdom of that pick. So I hope he thinks carefully.


by NY Writer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:15:52 PM EST

Is Obama ready to see Hillary in McCain Attack Ads (none / 0)

That is what he cam expect if Obama chooses Hillary.

I can see it now:

A bad still photo of Obama fills the screen. An ominous sounding narrerator says "Obama's own vice presidential choice has questioned his qualifications to lead America in these perilous times." Cut to a clip of Hillary's March 6th campaign speech.

"I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold,I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy."

Narrerator: If Hillary Clinton doubted Barack Obama's readines to assume the office of President, should YOU vote for him?


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I have never had strong feelings either way about Hillary as VP.  But I just don't get how Obama could do it without looking like a major weakling and hypocrite.  For e.g., what would his stance against lobbyists and PACs look like once Bill Clinton's post-presidential lobbying activity is detailed?  I don't think he could navigate those disclosures cleanly, and that's the main reason I think the Hillary as VP gambit is more of a "better in theory" idea.


by festus on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:16:49 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Well, if he chooses her, his stance is: I intend to win rather than lose. That's the first calculation. The second, who is qualified to be VP.

If he wins the rest is forgiven. If he loses, he's damned.


by NY Writer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I don't understand this point at all.  Obviously he wants to win, he wouldn't have won the primary if he didn't. He will pick her if it means the difference between him winning or losing, but saying it that way assumes facts that don't yet exist. The pushback of him picking Clinton, and having Bill's lobbying activities implicated in the ticket, among other baggage, will take significant wind out of his sails, and may alienate people who voted for him in the first place.  That's all part of the accounting.


by festus on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I strongly support HRC and still do and i would personally like to see her on the ticket.  But i also very strongly want to win the white house.  So for me it is a very similar question.  Does HRC signficantly increase BO chances of winning the election and if so what specific states would go dem versus GOP is she is on the ticket??

If the anwser is we would win OH, NM, and say WV then it is a big yes.  If not i will have to live with someone else on the ticket.

david


by giusd on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:18:25 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I personnally know several Repubs and Indies that are leaning toward voting for Obama.  Having Hilliary as a VP would lean them in the other direction.


by needtoknow on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:18:40 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

yep, it could end up netting Obama a zero gain cause for every vote that she would bring to him there is also a vote that she could end up costing him.


by GeeMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:35:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

There is no evidence of this.


by Double Standard on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:36:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Please give people a little more credit for their intelligence than that. Just because the Repug's blast him with swiftboat type lies doesn't mean people are going to swallow it.


by GeeMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

"Please give people a little more credit for their intelligence than that. Just because the Repug's blast him with swiftboat type lies doesn't mean people are going to swallow it."

This is a country that elected Nixon/Reagan/Bush.

Do not, I REPEAT, do not give credit to the intelligence of the American people.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Hillary would serve this country well by taking over Ted Kennedy's role in the Senate.  There are some of the great titans of the Senate who are nearing the end of their service, and Hillary could help fill their void.  

Bill should get a position in Obama's cabinet and have Hillary push Democratic issues through the Senate.


by pdxlawyer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:19:43 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

We can't survive with Hillary on the spotlight all the way to November. She has skill, and she has talent, and she has intelligence, but she doesn't have any sense of the humility that every vice-president should have. At all.

The Clintons don't know how to play second fiddle. They must either be firmly in the center or firmly at the edges. Trying to put them in second place is a recipe for disaster.

Wes Clarke for VP, please.


by Aris Katsaris on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:20:28 PM EST

I've said it before and I'll say it again. (none / 0)

Brian Schweitzer
Kathleen Sebelius
Patty Murray
Mark Warner
Sherrod Brown
John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:24:47 PM EST

Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

running-mate:

It's not baggage or old politics or personal ambitions.  It's CELEBRITY that is the problem.  Bill and Hillary are celebrities.  Obama might just as well make Brangelina his running-mate.  The Clintons would suck up all the media coverage, diminishing his stature as the man at the top of the ticket.  There would be a slew of bullshit media narratives about something Bill and/or Hillary said or did, where they went, etc., which would distract from the issues.  

The Republicans must know this.  They would certainly try to tweak the Clintons in order to change the subject and make it an Entertainment Tonight campaign.

We need this campaign to be Obama versus McCain, not the trials and tribulations of Bill and Hillary.


by Dumbo on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST

Re: Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

Do you expect Bill and Hillary Clinton to campaign for Obama.

If you do , I don't know how valid your point is.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:29:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

Not even close to the same thing.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

Bill and Hillary will say a few platitudes on behalf of Obama. They will NOT campaign against McCain.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

So you believe Hillary Clinton to have been a liar when she said she'd work hard to ensure Obama's victory. And yet you supposedly supported her?

Seriously, your disguise as a Democrat needs a LOT of work where its self-consistency is concerned.


by Aris Katsaris on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why Hillary would be a TERRIBLE (none / 0)

Did you have a problem with Michelle Obama when she said she wasn't sure if she would support Hillary if Hillary became the nominee?

Imagine if Hillary's husband had said that about Obama. You guys would be lynching him.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think they will be willing to campaign (none / 0)

for Obama.  But if I were Obama, I would ask them to mostly just LAY LOW.  They should put on some sunglasses and sunblocker and head for the beach until the election is over.  I don't doubt that there are places where they could help, but if they take up too much of the center stage, they diminish Obama.

Really, even if he passes over Hillary for veep, it is going to be difficult to get the media narrative off of the Clintons and on to Obama vs. McCain.  So Bill and Hillary should be used sparingly.


by Dumbo on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's very kind of Jesse. (2.00 / 2)

He's a credit where credit is due sort of guy.  I really love him for advocating for her here.  I think mending fences is important.  I think we are stronger together than apart.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:29:23 PM EST

Re: That's very kind of Jesse. (2.00 / 2)

I mean, Jesse gets it.  He see's how fun and cheery this can be for the voters who support one of the candidates but don't believe in all the hate.  He's a spirited guy.  He'd like to see both dreams realized.  He's see's how that could energize the entire Party.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I'll support whomever he chooses.


by KLRinLA on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:33:48 PM EST

No Cabinet position. (2.00 / 3)

That's a huge step down for Hillary, unless it was Secretary of State or something.  No Health and Human services for the Senator from New York.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:34:04 PM EST

Re: No Cabinet position. (none / 0)

HHS Secretary doesn't have to be a meaningless position. That it is, to a certain degree, right now is more a cause of the present debacle than any inevitable status that department has to have. Obama could easily appoint Hillary to HHS and Edwards to HUD and at the same time pledge that those two departments would be more than token organs of the Federal government. It's a win(Obama)-win(Hillary)-win(Edwards)-win (USA).


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Cabinet position. (2.00 / 2)

Well, she won't take it.  She doesn't want to be locked in the Cabinet ala Rovert Reich.  She'd rather keep her Senate Seat in that case.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No Cabinet position. (none / 0)

I think my scenario is better. If what I've seen lately is any indication, HHS and HUD are about to become the most important posts in this country, based on the services they provide and how many formerly middle-class people are just about to be in desperate needs of those services.

But yeah, HHS and HUD will remain backburners, in all probability.


by Addison on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

How many "Hillary" votes does Obama get with Hillary on the ticket?  Millions of Dems are estimated to not support his presidential camapaign.  JJ, again, show his aptitude for politics.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:42:04 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Millions of Dems didn't support her---thus it ended the way it did.


by GeeMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

She already ran as a VP, basically, Bill Clinton's VP. And like most veeps in recent history...she lost. If someone is trying to use a VP position as a springboard to the presidency they tend to end up disappointed. When you run as a former VP you are tied to someone else's administration and thus their failures and inadequacies. We're much better served by getting a veep who DOESN'T want to run for president, someone freed up from those pressures and not looking at Barack as a potential liability all the time.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:45:38 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

And Al gore was Clinton's....?


by NY Writer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gosh, Obama supporters are so depressing. (2.00 / 3)

This would be so fun and they can't even see it.  Thankfully, Jesse see's it.  He's a good guy.  Obama folks, your guy won, cheer up.  


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:50:28 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I don't think she should be his VP.  I don't think she should take a position in his administration if he wins in November either.  JMO.


by JustJennifer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:51:22 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

How about a high-profile Clinton supporter for Obama's VP?  Like Gov. Strickland of Ohio?  You want to talk about rural and blue-collar cred, that guy has it.  Not to mention, McCain can't win the presidency without Ohio.


by Skaje on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:51:25 PM EST

How about Hillary? (2.00 / 2)

She's very popular in Ohio.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

He is too much of a conservative for me, and only rated 30% by NARAL on pro-choice positions.
I like Sebelius more on the issues, and she's good at working with Republicans  (she likes to veto a lot of their bills), but we still need her in Kansas. ;)
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

There is no substitute.


by Scotch on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (1.00 / 0)

I am a Hillary supporter and I don't want her on the ticket.

Obama will be defeated in November. He will lose on a McGovern scale. Goodbye Michigan/Ohio/Florida/Pennylvania.

I don't want Hillary tainted with his defeat. She is better of following the Reagan example. Politely endorse Obama because she has to. Keep her distance. Watch Obama ticket go down to defeat. Watch the DNC discredited. Organize her 18 millon supporters for a run in 2012. That is what Reagan did. That is what Hillary will do.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:57:00 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Are you voting for Obama?

Because he won't lose if more Hillary supporters vote for him. You have the power! (a little snark...)


by mrpondeli on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

"He will lose on a McGovern scale"

John McCain will win 49 states?

Where does one even begin addressing something so utterly nonsensical?


by Collideascope on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Check your history. McGovern won the nomination the same way as Obama, through delegates. He did not win a plurality of the base Democratic voters. This is something many Obama supporters simply don't grasp.

At this point, polls are meaningless. Very few Dems are going to willingly admit to a pollster they won't vote for Obama out of fear of being tagged a racist. Any poll that shows 5% between him and McCain should be cause for concern, as its more likely that poll is the harbinger of a McCain victory.

A friend recently was moaning how Obama could win the popular vote and lose the electoral college to McCain and whining what a travesty that would be. I responded he had some nerve taking that attitude when Obama was given the nomination courtesy of the SD despite the fact Hillary won the popular vote.

So yeah, I agree with the guy that Obama is going to lose worse than McGovern. He certainly doesn't have my vote and highly doubt he will. The ONLY possibility is if Hillary is VP, and I'm praying she doesn't go that route, if only so we have a viable candidate come 2012.


by SoCalHillMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

McGovern had the same coalition Obama has. His base was young people and liberal elites.

Nixon was unpopular. There was an unpopular vote. Economy was tanking.

Nixon won 49 states.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

You honestly think she will get enough Dem support in 2012? LOL...I seriously doubt that, it will just be some other name who beats her then for the nomination.


by GeeMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

If Hillary was just Hillary, I'd think she'd make a wonderful VP. But Hillary isn't just Hillary, she comes with Bill Clinton as well. And nothing against Bill Clinton, but his presence in the VP picture would undermine every decision Obama made. It's bad politics.

I say Obama should pick whomever he feels comfortable running with.

No one really votes for the VP anyway.


by mrpondeli on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:11:29 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

Bill hasn't been busy with his multi-million dollar charitable crusades?  Distressing to hear any Dem talk ill of Bill.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is not just charity (none / 0)

That is going to be a major problem.   Back in 2000 the Clintons were bankrupt, now they are multi-millionaires, and the money is not just from books.

That is going to be the problem.  How he made is money will be a really big deal, especially if he made it talking to foreign interests.  It will be a non-stop story about who he spoke to and who he advocated for and all that.   This is not a dig at the Clinton's, but it would be a major press story.

I understand that Reagan and Bush also made a lot of money this way, but when they left office, they left office.  That is why this situation would be different.  How can an Obama/Clinton ticket claim to fight big oil, if it turns out that Bill made a lot of money from speaking on their behalf?

But, beyond that, the bigger story is how does a former president take the back seat and be Second Spouse?  I just don't see it working.  I just feel that it is better for ex-Presidents to not be involved in daily political activity.  


by monkeyga on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (2.00 / 1)

Back in 2000, Obama was broke.  Now he is a millionaire.  What's your point?  


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

Yes, Obama's cult followers talk about Clintons's supposedly sleazy finances. The sleazy finances were ivestigated for 8 years at a cost of $100 million. And they found nothing.

Well, you are about to get a taste of your own medicine because soon we will be hearing all about Obama's sleazy finances. There might not be anything there. But that didn't stop the media from hounding the Clintons for a decade. The GOP will make sure it "appears" sleazy.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

You really are a true Republican troll.  Why don't you just go back to NRO.

I am sick and tired of all you fuckers who keep insisting that Hillary and Bill are saints, THEY ARE NOT.  


by monkeyga on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

Bill Clinton's finances don't concern me.

Just the idea that he'll be in the background of the picture, hanging around the VPs house. I have no qualms with him, just that him being there overshadows Obama.

Him and Hillary aren't second fiddles.

To use a sports metaphor, Shaq and Kobe didn't get along because they're both superstars and neither wanted to relinquish the spotlight. Kobe and Gasol work better together because Pau is willing to step aside.

Of course, Hillary on the ticket could help him win the election, but beyond that, it's short sighted. But, never fear Hillary supporters, she'll still be younger than McCain in 2012.


by mrpondeli on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

Neither is Obama.

The ironic thing in handing Obama the nomination, the Democratic Party picked a candidate with even less experience than Bush. I didn't think that possible.


by SoCalHillMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:28:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

forgive me. are we arguing about obama v. clinton?


by mrpondeli on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is not just charity (none / 0)

Get with the program. I'm responding to an earlier comment. Besides, by pointing out how Obama lacks even the requisite experience Bush had before running for the WH, it goes without saying what an inferior candidate he is to HRC.


by SoCalHillMan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it would be macabre (2.00 / 1)

to see a brilliant talent like HRC serve as VP to a mediocre neophyte . She was elected by the democrats.  He was appointed by the DNC. He would treat her abusively, and she would be reduced to menial chores in Axelrod's administration.


by layer cake on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:16:53 PM EST

And I just don't think that even she (none / 0)

could get him elected.  Not with his troubling set of friends and church yahoos.


by layer cake on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And I just don't think that even she (none / 0)

VP candidate will have no effect on the outcome. None.

We go through this every election. Wall to wall coverage of VP selection. Who will help, who will hurt. At the end it makes no difference.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

give me a break (none / 0)

SHE was the DNC candidate.  SHE had all of the Superdelegates lined up behind her from the beginning.  She had the power of the party firmly in her camp a year ago.  She had all the money at the start of the year.

If you go back to Iowa, HRC was well over 200 Superdelegates ahead of Obama.  Almost the whole party hierarchy was in her corner.  If you don't understand that simple concept, than you haven't been paying attention to this race for the last 16 months.


by monkeyga on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it would be macabre (none / 0)

Your absurd nonsense regarding the past is a perfect match for DonB's absurd nonsense regarding the future.

You two should get married and have many stupid children together.


by Aris Katsaris on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

Not sure if you guys have seen this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/opinio n/06tyson.html

"IT appears that Hillary Clinton is going to suspend her presidential
campaign this weekend, at the urging of Democratic Party leaders and
superdelegates. Before that happens, Mrs. Clinton and the
superdelegates might want to know this: if the general election were
held today, Barack Obama would lose to John McCain, while Mr. McCain
would lose to Mrs. Clinton"

---------------------------

In Ohio, for example, Mr. McCain beats Mr. Obama two polls to one.
But Mrs. Clinton beats Mr. McCain two polls to nothing. So Ohio,
which Mr. Kerry did not win in 2004, would go into Mrs. Clinton's
column, giving her an additional 20 electoral votes.

In Florida, Mr. McCain beats Mr. Obama three polls to zero. But Mrs.
Clinton shuts out Mr. McCain two to zero. Because Florida went to
President Bush four years ago, Mrs. Clinton grabs 27 more electoral
votes.

In Michigan, Mr. McCain beats Mr. Obama three polls to zero. But the
median poll between Mr. McCain and Mrs. Clinton is a tie. Mr. Kerry
won Michigan in 2004, so Mrs. Clinton gets to keep it. But Mr. Obama
loses its 17 electoral votes.

----------------

Keep listening to the Corporate Media propaganda about the "Clinton baggage", "Clinton polarizing". The corporate media got the Dems where they want them. Stuck with an unelectable nominee.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:17:28 PM EST

AMEN, BRO (1.00 / 1)


by layer cake on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

First of all, there is the proposition that by the time the Republicans are done with him, Barack Obama just may be as polarizing a figure as Hillary Clinton is. As Republican pollster Whit Ayres says:

   "Obama is plenty energizing enough for Republicans and conservatives," he said.

That's what he says because he has to say it.  Sure diehard conservatives will be motivated, but not those whose feelings are less strong.  

One thing the primary taught me is why people hated the Clintons.  The reason is that they're frustrating to lose to.  You think you've defeated them and then they redefine the word "defeat" and somehow they won, leaving you standing there shaking your fist.  As allies they're wonderful, but when you're on the other side, it's really irritating.  Obama has his flaws, but he also has this way of making himself look like he's compromising when he really isn't that makes it hard to create the same level of visceral hate overnight.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:20:29 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

Last I checked Obama had 40% negatives. And that is before the GOP has laid a glove on him.

By election day he will have negatives in teh high 40s. Gore did. Kerry did. The more scrutiny the higher the negatives.

Hillary and McCain have about the same negatives, mid 40s. And yet Hillary is "polarizing", McCain is a maverick.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

The GOP has been laying gloves on him for a few months now.  Turn on conservative radio and listen.  

Yes, his negatives will rise over the next few months.  The difference is that with Obama, the Republicans are going to have to spend the next 5 months working hard for that to happen, work that can't be spent fighting FOR McCain. With Clinton, the work had already been done.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

"the Republicans are going to have to spend the next 5 months working hard for that to happen, work that can't be spent fighting FOR McCain."

Republicans outsource their dirty tricks.

Remember Bush had nothing to do with swifboat vets. Some GOP billionaire bankrolled it.

Bush Sr had nothing to do with Willie Horton. It was a contract job.

The GOP has a dirty tricks infrastructure in place. They give the orders and the somebody carries out the hit.


by DonB11 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I think Jesse Jackson probably knows from his son that Senator Obama does not want to pick Senator Clinton as his running mate and I find it curious that he would make this statement. For a long time I have suspected that he is not really behind Obama's canidacy fully.


by pennypacker on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:26:37 PM EST

Of course he is not (none / 0)

Obama completely takes away Jesse Jacksons power base.   What is Jesse going to do when America elects a Black man to be President?  

Jesse Jackson needs Obama to lose for him to stay relevent.  Obama is the representation of a post-Jesse Jackson America.   I do not think that Jesse is ready to give up his power base yet.


by monkeyga on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

The fact that people can't seem to let go of the Clintons (afterall why are we still talking about this? ) is fascinating to me. Even now on CNN, MSNBC, etc., they are mining them Clinton angles like a nearly done strip coal mine. Do we really have to front page the VP/Clinton angle after its been diaried to death?  Why can't we focus on Obama's policies or something Obama-related?

I continue to believe Hillary will be on the ticket. Too many voting blocs, from Jewish (the feedback on his Aipac reception  is instructive, not to mention Feinstein and Schumer openly advocating Hillary) and Hispanic voters, not too mention older women, are not fully comfortable with Obama, and this is before the Republican's try to define him as some exotic closet left wing radical and an economic Robin Hood who plans to gut the treasury. The Republican attack machine is remarkably silent right now, which is rather disconcerting.

I find it interesting that both Jesse Jackson and Rangel are still nervous enough for Obama to suggest Hillary Clinton as VP. Either that or they are not sure about his agenda. Obama is an immature an politician because he has allowed himself the luxury of being way too in thrall to the I-hate-Clinton wing of the Democratic party establishment. Too in hock to Kennedy, Pelosi, Daschle. A prince-in-waiting too apt to listen to  courtiers whispering in his ears. Why can't he just show some independence and pick up the phone and call Bill Clinton? Or invite Clinton to his home for dinner? Trust me, when the economic shit hits the fan in office he will need Clinton counsel as much as Pelosi. If anything should have taught Obama from watching the primaries unfold is that there are no permanent friends in politics. Jesse Jackson and Rangel sense the dangerous road ahead. Unlike many of his supporters, Obama does not have the luxury of disliking the Clintons but he does not know it yet. Hillary will be VP on the ticket, Obama just doesn't know this yet either.


by superetendar on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:28:27 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

The reason everyone is still talking about Clinton is because the entire primary was about beating her.  


by JustJennifer on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

How true. Spot on.


by superetendar on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

"Obama is an immature an politician because he has allowed himself the luxury of being"

Obama is like a movie start who starts believing his own publicity. The media adulation has gone to his head. He is drunk on power and arrogance.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

The reason people are still talking about Clinton, is because millions of people still want her as the nominee and are not willing to settle someone else after the fight that has going on for the past 16 months. There is a restless empty feeling out there for many. This feels unfinished because it feels to many like the DNC, the media, political hacks, and more picked the nominee instead of the people, and that is not something a lot of people can get used to.  


by Scotch on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

"There is a restless empty feeling out there for many."--Scotch

Could not agree with you more.

Unlike 1992 and Bill Clinton there is no organic feeling, no groundswell of excitement, no buzz in his ideas and policies. It all seems so MSM manufactured, with Obama shouting platitudes with that monotone boom box voice set permanently on "loud" and "extra base." There is no variation in Obama's voice, his message sounds so impersonal. Outside of his core group, people are curiously underwhelmed.


by superetendar on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The spark went out of the campaign (1.50 / 4)

when the real talent was snuffed out by DNC.
It isn't interesting enough to follow anymore.  He's a "present" kind of a candidate.
by layer cake on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:32:57 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

If BO has to "win" or "win back" half the Democratic electorate (i.e. those that voted for HRC) then we're in real big trouble come November. The VP pick needs to keep him solid with the base, but more importantly help him do well with swing voters/independents (perhaps even disaffected GOP'ers). If he needs to use the VP as the only way to placate the HRC supporters (at the possible expense of expanding his demos)--and that's the only way they'll vote for him--then I suspect we're sunk. The VP needs to extend his demographics, not keep what he needs to win.  

Now I'm not saying that BO or the Democrats can take half the base for granted, but nor can he spend considerable time, effort, money, and especially the VP pick trying to woo back voters that on the issues and ideology should be unequivocally compelled to vote for Obama. Look how ridiculous McCain appears when he simultaneously panders to his base while trying to appeal to the indies as "The Maverick".

Its time for real democrats--not Hillarycrats (or Obamacrats or Whateveracrats)--to get over it. Yeah, I know your upset, pissed and whatever. I would be too if the situation were reversed. But there are lives and our country at stake here. Its not about "you" or me, but about our futures and we have a moral imperative to do what is right, not what satiates some sort of revenge instinct. You need to be on board because you want to preserve woman's reproductive rights, end the immoral occupation of Iraq, end the unfettered, unitary executive ideology which has led our country to torture and execute without trial. Maybe even end (or find a truce) the so-called culture wars which have crippled our country's legislative process for the past several decades.

You should do as your conscience dictates, but I for one couldn't live with myself knowing that I contributed to electing someone (either actively, or passively via not voting) that in most respects believes things contrary to my core values. We need to all get behind our nominee NOW rather than later, regardless of whether he picks HRC as a VP or not.


by bigdaddy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:41:44 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

Hillary has been kicking McCains ass in the electoral college. No serious person doubts her ability to be president. She's won the respect of the generals. She knows her shit. She is a professional and she agrees with Obama on most of the issues. She would be a perfect V.P. for him.

Republicans are comfortable with Hillary as president or V.P. even though they disagree with her on the issues.

Obama would be a fool not to pick Hillary.


by mmorang on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 1)

The case "against" her isn't legitimate.  32 percent of Independents view her negatively.  That means 68 percent view her positively.  And the rest of the case against her doesn't make sense.  Obama can never hope to get 100 percent of the indies, many are going to McCain regardless of who is the vice president, nor can he hope to get many conservatives, so those stats are just useless.  Lets face it, not a lot who would vote against Clinton would turn around and vote for Obama. Their differences from the republican lineup of darkly dressed white men is significant about equally with the gender/race contrast.

Beside the fact that I would imagine she would be a draw to Republican women, who might cross over to vote for her.  I can't see them doing that for any male vice president or any other VP of either gender.  However, I remember at the time of the Florida primary there was a pollster.com article remarking about how the Republican womans vote had been falling off in the last couple of elections, and that election was not much different.  A lot of republican women would like to see women gain in politics, and all they are faced with year after year, election after election is most always dark suited white male clones on stage with not much hope of ever seeing someone resembling themselves.  I think this year, they would have come over in droves for Hillary Clinton for president and might still do it even for Vice.


by Scotch on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:47:21 PM EST

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

I can't really say how her presence on the ticket would affect his draw with indies or moderate GOP'ers. But this is the question he needs to be asking and addressing, not whether he can "win back" HRC voters. If at the end of the day his analysis of the situation leads him to HRC then cool, but it should not be a decision based on placating what is supposed to be the base of the party.

As for my feelings re: HRC on the ticket. I think it doesn't work on two levels. First, it runs counter to his central message. You can argue that "change" doesn't work as well in the GE (although I think this year is a bit different), it still doesn't change that it undermines his message.

Second, the baggage issue. Unfortunately we live in a political world where you are held responsible for the people you associate with. Obama took many hits for Wright and Rezko. HRC, in the GE is going to have to answer for her sleezeball husband. I never believed the claim the Clintons were "vetted"--if anything I think there was foreboding silence from the GOP while they kept their powder dry for a potential GE onslaught. Additionally, I think--contrary to many--that she was given almost a complete pass by the MSM on her past both personally and on her record as first lady. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will galvanize the GOP base than having HRC on the ticket. One HUGE advantage BO has right now is that the GOP base is fractured and apathetic. I can think of nothing better to unite them than a Clinton.

Now don't mistake what I'm saying. Its not fair and its not necessarily her baggage and we can't run scared from the GOP attack machine. But I just see a rehash of the partisan culture wars of the 90's with her on the ticket. Do I have polls? Nope. Just anecdotal evidence that, right or wrong, many moderate Republicans and independents want nothing to do with anything associated with the Clintons.


by bigdaddy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (2.00 / 2)

First, what is, is.  It might be that he SHOULDNT have to win back the base, but in this particular election he doesn't have them and so he is going to have to win them back.  Should is an illusion and you just can't demand that the base should be with him, and ignore it when they are not.

Secondly, if Hillary Clinton, a female candidate with the victories and the supporters that she has, isn't change and hope to a lot of people, I don't know what is.  He himself is from Washington.  If he is claiming his experience from there as part of his meager credentials, then he can't hide it and say he isn't a washington insider at the same time.

Third. Her "sleezeball husband"  brought us a decade of peace and prosperity, and left office with one of the highest approval ratings in history.  Many of us admire him greatly, and the ones who don't are the ones voting republican in the fall and who have never, and will never vote for a democratic presidential candidate in their lives.  The republicans would find it hard to throw anything against Clinton regarding his finances and make it stick when McCains wealthy wife will not release her financial records and tax returns leaving a lot of financial involvement of McCains to wonder about.  And there is a little thing in McCains past regarding the SAVIngs and Loan Scandal where he exhibited a little bit of sleeze of his own.

With Obamas record of scandals so far though, I worry if Clinton was on the ticket, that her reputation and chances for the future might suffer when or if more of them come out. I am sure the republicans are just waiting. My concern about it is for her and how it could compromise her rather than him.  That is the main drawback to me of having her on the ticket.


by Scotch on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Hillary As VP Balancing Act (none / 0)

"But I just see a rehash of the partisan culture wars of the 90's with her on the ticket."

Pretty naive of you.

There is going to be a partisan culture war no matter who is the Dem nominee.

You are about to find out.


by DonB11 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:20:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

HHS/HEW... (none / 0)

If Hillary doesn't want to build seniority in the Senate, I say give Hillary her way on health care, and offer her HHS to make it happen.  Heck, give her a re-combined HEW (Health, Education and Welfare), if necessary.

It isn't VP, but it's Hillary gettin