It was an innocent mistake... but...

Let's be clear.  It was reasonably honest what Clinton was trying to say.  She was just referring to races that went on until June.  Yes the analogy was flawed in two different ways - the 1968 race didn't start in January and 1968 is not exactly the year you bring up when you want to show how the party can unite after a long primary fight [1] - but the intention is pretty obvious.  I wish more of my fellow Obama supporters could see that.

On the other hand, I can see why they're blinded.  I don't know if Clinton supporters quite get the fear that's been ingrained in the Obama camp.  Both my fiancee and my mother have casually mentioned how afraid they are of Obama being shot.  It just seems like such an obvious target to have the first African American presidential  nominee killed that people have been terrified of this for a while now.  I don't think it's a rational fear - the fact that Obama is doing this well shows how far we've come since the 60s - but I understand it.  

It's not Clinton's fault that she didn't understand the fear that a lot of Obama supporters have.  It's only slightly her fault that she gave a statement that was that open ended, meaning that races didn't always end early, but leaving out the rational interpretation of the words spoken, "Well maybe Obama will get shot.  I better stick around just in case."  What is her fault is that after a day of press coverage, she still doesn't understand what about her statement freaked people out and she still hasn't apologized to Obama.

Political controversies are frequently stupid.  The Bosnia lie, "bitter-gate," "typical white people," all of these were pretty minor issues that get blown out of proportion due to the needs of a 24 hour news station to fill time.  Random comments will be blown out of proportion.  Candidates need to know how to handle that. A quick apology to Obama that understands why the phrasing was so offensive will end this 5 minutes later.  Continuing to not see the problem will dog her for the rest of her campaign, and right now her position in this race is pretty precarious.  

Ironically enough, Clinton's statement about why races continuing into June wouldn't be an issue, showed the exact opposite.  Candidates get tired and don't phrase things quite as precisely as they did back in March.  Groups of supporters are less likely to give the other camp any benefit of the doubt because we've been through a few cycles where each one has been under attack.  You want to know why this race needs to end soon?  It's because we're about 2-3 rounds of this sort of silliness away from being unable to reunite.  Beating McCain is the goal here.

[1] For those who might not know about 1968, protests outside devolved into a riot between police and the protesters which got far more coverage than the convention itself..  The Democrats stood no chance in the general.



Display:


Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

uh, what utter tripe. the questions asked were about past troubled primaries. And guess what, 1968 is a valid example of that. Now if she had dragged MLK's death into it that would have been a big problem. since she didn't all the bleating and gnashing of teeth by the BHO folks is just lies and hot air.


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:47:56 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

That's wrong.  The question asked was "Why?" after her talking about her rationale for staying in the race.  

Why is she staying in the race?  That was her answer.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:53:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

you do realize there were lots of questions in that interview don't you? did you watch anything except the cropped sound-bite? somehow you answer shows you are working hard to keep yourself low-info...


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:55:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

I watched a 2:28 clip with her soundbite near the end.  Yes she was asked other questions in the interview, but it's not like she was answering something asked 10 minutes ago.  She was explaining her rationale to stay in the race - popular vote, only down by 200 delegates - and it was asked in that context.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

And for that matter, I said that her only problem in the interview was phrasing things in a way that was open to a darker interpretation.  I don't think that Clinton is lurking around waiting for Obama to be shot so she could then get the nomination.  However, that's a valid reading of the actual words that she said.  It's not that hard.  Apologize, say that's not what you meant, show that you understand how they were offensive (which is why her last attempt failed), and most people will move on.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:02:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

and what you and your ilk try to hide is that 'darker intent' comes from inside YOU, not her.


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:12:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

Try to hide?  I blatantly said it in my diary that people were terrified about this possibility and Clinton tapped into it without knowing it was there.  My title of this diary calls it an innocent mistake.  It's just that once you make it, it's up to you to decide how you want to deal with it.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

We're still waiting for you to post the question.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:16:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

the questions asked were about past troubled primaries.

Wrong.  The question asked was if she agreed with the "party unity" argument as a reason for her to get out of the race.  So, 1968 would be a really invalid example of that.

The two examples she used to demonstrate that races historically go to June were extremely misleading.  Her husband wrapped up the nomination for all intents and purposes in March, not June.  And RFK didn't enter the race until March in 1968.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:50:52 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

This was directed at zerosumgame, who was being dishonest about what the question to Hillary was.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:51:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

OK, another idiot who only saw the sound-bite and thinks there was only one question. sheesh, and you try to call HRC supporters low-info...


by zerosumgame on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:57:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

Post the question you are talking about.  I watched the video and read the transcript in its entirety.

Oh, and I'll refrain from TR'ing you even though you were one of the worst abusers of the system.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:01:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

I heard it and she was responding to one question - the question about why she was still in the race. It was very obvious.


by Becky G on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:49:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

I actually think that this was a powerful analogy because the event is seared in people's memories.  When Clinton or others talk about the 1980, 1984, or 1992 elections going into June, I kind of think back and wonder, did that really happen? Did it just go on in name or was the outcome still really in doubt?

But when Clinton brings up the 1968 nomination, that evokes a very powerful memory.  Yes, I remember that event, and yes, I also definitely remember that when the event occurred the outcome of the nominating contest was very much in contention (and I was only 14 years old at the time).

I guess just like you can now never use the word "bomb" anytime you are near an airplane (because, even if you are saying it in a perfectly innocent way, somebody somewhere can think you are talking about bombing the airplane), you can now never use the word "assassination" in any discussion related to the presidential campaign (because somebody somewhere can assume that you are raising the specter of a current candidate being killed).


by markjay on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:53:04 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

It's not that you can never use the word, it's that you have to be careful.  Clinton's first mistake was pretty minor, a misphrasing.  Even still all it would take is something like, "Oh, I see why people saw that interpretation.  Of course I didn't mean that.  I know that some of Obama's supporters are scared of this specter and I apologize to anyone I offended with my imprecise phrasing," and it would be over.

Clinton's fighter instincts betray her sometimes.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:57:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

You're inflaming my pet peeve.  Clinton's "apology" was very annoying (besides that it was not the Kennedys who were upset) because the "if anyone was offended" is a classic of the political non-apology apology.  She basically said she didn't think she did anything wrong and blamed the people who were offended.  The key to a real apology is just plain saying you were wrong.


by CA Pol Junkie on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:10:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

I'm reminded of the Fonz here who couldn't ever say the words, "I'm sorry."


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

Yes, those two examples really don't work if somebody considers the historical context.  1968 - low point for Democratic unity, riots at the convention, we lose.  1992 - Clinton defeated Tsongas in March, spent the rest of the against Jerry Brown, a previous decade's Mike Huckabee.

Moreover, really what is the takeaway point from the premise that sometimes the nomination race goes into June?  What moral force is one supposed to draw from that?  Sometimes they're over in March, too.


by rfahey22 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:02:46 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (2.00 / 1)

Exactly.  This is what concerns me.  I'll grant that Hillary meant well, but it still raises that fear.  And that fear isn't ineffectual.  It not only bothers us deeply, it leads some people not to vote for Obama.  At the beginning of the race Obama was having a hard time with sections of the black vote because of this fear.  Inadvertantly as it may have been, bringing it up has a real effect.  It's like an unintentional low blow.  You shouldn't be disqualified or anything for doing it, and we can't really get mad at you, but you have to know that it has a genuine effect on your opponent (and in this case his supporters).  Her not apologizing to him is the insane part of this whole thing.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:16:12 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter I am going to go with a poor choice as a timeline reference and not intentional.

However, as we all know it matters not what the meaning, its the perception. We all say things that mean one thing to us, but when these word hit some else's ear and are translated the words are perceived totally differently than out meaning.

This is where  robust apology is necessary and this is what I did not hear yesterday. Again my perception of her words.

Now those who heard what she said and understood her meaning will say: what does she need to apologize for?" However those who took something else away from her remarks expected more than they got.

In the end those not angered loose nothing in her apology and the angered will start to cool off.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:18:56 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake.... (none / 0)

that she has made several times.


by barnowl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:43:58 AM EST

Re: It was an innocent mistake... but... (none / 0)


by barnowl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:44:13 AM EST


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