How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously)

I've been watching Clinton's strategy for the end game and like her strategy for the , it confuses me.  It looks like she's more or less willing to hold serve, beat Obama in IN, lose in NC, beat him in WV and KY, lose in OR, beat him in PR, and hope for maybe an upset in SD or MT.  
March primaries
What strikes me about that strategy is that that's a way to not lose, not a way to win.  I play that way in poker tournaments sometimes and just try to outlast people, and the thing is that that's a great way to get into the money, but it makes it next to impossible to actually win.

So how can Clinton win?  Well it's still a longshot, but this is the chance that I see.  Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong but this is a good faith effort so try to keep the insulting to a minimum.  

1) Reach out to the African American community.

This is crucial for anything else to happen.  How do Democrats win elections?  They keep the margin as low as possible with Caucasian voters and run up the score in the African American and Latino community.  Look at the exit polls from PA in 2004.  Kerry lost white men by 10, white women by 2, but won 84-16 among African Americans.  Look at Maryland.  Same pattern, only more pronounced.  Look at Wisconsin, a state not usually associated with minorities, and you see the same pattern.  Michigan?  Bush had a 10 point lead among Caucasians, Kerry a 79 point lead among African Americans.

Clinton should be expected to do far better among Caucasian women, but that wouldn't be enough to make up for what would happen if African Americans would stay home.  Superdelegates know this and comments like Clyburn's terrify them.  There's no way that superdelegates can move en masse when there is the chance of a backlash.  In the same way that Obama has to show ability to make progress among white men, Clinton has to make inroads among African Americans or it doesn't matter what else she does.  She doesn't have to win them as a group anymore than Obama has to win over women.  However, she does have to stop angering a core group.

2) Win North Carolina.

Clinton is playing to not lose now.  That's a great strategy to keep yourself in the game, but if she actually wants to win, she needs to take some chances.  When you're down late in a football game, you have to pass the ball and not worry about interceptions.  Pour the kinds of resources into North Carolina that Obama did into Pennsylvania.  If she really thinks she can win, she could lend the campaign money and pay herself back out of the general election funds.  A 2-3 point win in Indiana would be enough for her to keep going, but if she loses North Carolina by 15 points, she'd be in a worse position than she was before Pennsylvania in both popular vote count and delegate count with only a few small states to go.  

Clinton needs a game changer and this late in the game, North Carolina is pretty much the only one she has left.  She needs to stop worrying about playing the expectations game and instead fight like she can win.

3) Stop trying to use Michigan in arguments.

The Florida election is important to Clinton's chances.  It nets her 40 delegates and a 300,000 gain in the popular vote count.  While it wasn't supposed to be a contested election, she could make a decent case that a new one wouldn't have results that would be that different.  Any comeback needs to have those votes.  There's only one problem.  She's tying Florida to Michigan.

Unlike Florida, Michigan isn't seen as a fair election to anyone other than the biggest Clinton supporters.  Not only was Obama not on the ballot, but Clinton made a move on the uncommitted delegates, filling many of those with her own supporters.  Can you make an argument that Michigan should count as voted on?  Sure, but it won't convince anyone who doesn't already believe. Fighting for the Michigan vote wastes resources, wastes good will, gives more power to the argument that Clinton will do anything to win, and weakens an argument (Florida) that she actually could theoretically use to her advantage.  It's good red meat for her supporters, but the goal in arguing is to bring people to your side.  Anything that involves Michigan isn't convincing.

3.1) Stop arguing about debates

This is a minor point, hence the .1, but it's psychologically crucial.  Demanding more debates is what people do when they know that they've lost the election.  She's not going to get them - like it or not the ABC debate gave Obama all of the cover he needs to not schedule any more - and it feeds into the perception that she's going to lose.  If she wants to win, she needs to abandon that and try something else.

4) Come up with an overwhelming case in some metric.

The problem for Clinton here is twofold.  Obama has the easier case to make because he just has to have the superdelegates go along with the primary elections whereas Clinton has to get them to flip that result.  Moreover, Obama's lead in pledged delegates means that he has to move far fewer people over to his side than Clinton does.  Clinton needs an incredibly powerful argument.  Why isn't the popular vote case she's making convincing anyone?  Because it involves first adding Florida, and then adding Michigan, and even then it's a tiny lead.   Why isn't the electability argument winning her support?  Because the difference between her lead and Obama's lead in many states is small, and she has the opposite problem in Michigan, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon, and Wisconsin, all of which she'll need even if she can flip Ohio.  She needs a case that's powerful, something that doesn't have two or three if clauses in it.  What is it?  I don't know, but if she wants to win - as opposed to continue to not lose - she needs to find it.

This, of course, is the crucial step that would need to be done no matter what happens in the others.  I don't know how she can do this, but achieving 1-3 above would at least give her a shot of the metric existing.



Display:


It's over. (2.00 / 1)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:02:04 PM EST

Re: It's over. (1.33 / 3)

Could you make sure Obama stops wasting millions of money because it's over, and use it to feed the poor and the hungry? Heck, he can donate his millions for rebuilding New Orleans so that Jesse Jackson Jr can proudly say Obama did one thing for AAs.

We need to be united for November but that wont stop me from saying that only dumb people say "it's over" before something is actually over.


by Sandeep on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's with all the racism on MyDD lately? (none / 0)


by dystopianfuturetoday on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please explain (none / 0)

how that is racism and saying that the Clintons never did a thing for the AA community is.
What's with all the boy who cried racism these days?
by linc on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's over. (none / 0)

Have you never seen a nomination race before?

It is over.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The only way (2.00 / 2)

she can win is if Obama implodes. The problem is that that's not something she has control over.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:05:50 PM EST

Re: The only way (2.00 / 2)

I agree with you.  Personally I think she should suspend her campaign and make her case to the SDs if an implosion happens.  Since she's not doing that though, I thought I'd lay out her best case.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good analysis (none / 0)

If Clinton wins both IN and NC, she stands a good chance of convincing the supers. Maybe she can do it, who knows? The problem is that when she goes negative, she angers the black community (among others) and when she goes positive, she becomes irrelevant.


by Fairy Tale on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:12:17 PM EST

Re: Good analysis (2.00 / 1)

Why would you single out the black community as being angered over Hillary's Negativity? The swath of people she angers is long and wide.


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good analysis (none / 0)

I singled them out because they're crucial to winning, are voting overwhelmingly in favor for Obama, and are speaking out about being angry.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good analysis (2.00 / 2)

I was just pointing out that it is NOT only the AA community who has been angered by clinton


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good analysis (2.00 / 0)

I'm a 50 year old white woman and I'm awfully embarrassed that I used to support Clinton.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good analysis (1.50 / 2)

The AA community has made up its mind, and will not tolerate any critcism of the chosen candidate.  Any questioning of Obama at this point is viewed as nothing but racism.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good analysis (2.00 / 0)

That is such bs.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for your advice (2.00 / 1)

but she doesn't have to do any of these things as you are setting up some kind of false standard for her.  The person who has to perform is Obama, because he can't "ride the wave" anymore.  You know, he's going to have to make a convincing case regarding his electability, that his recent gaffes and associations are not going to hurt him in the general

Take a look at the EV map on this site.  What does that tell you?  

Like it or not, the supers get to consider the electibility in the GE.  Right now it doesn't look so good for your guy.  And the responsibility falls on Obama's shoulders, you cannot make this HRC's "fault".  And you cannot say "this is changing the rules".  

That there is not much movement of supers right now just indicates they're waiting too to see how this turns out. Prematurely annointing anyone now is not a winning strategy.


by 4justice on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:20:18 PM EST

Re: thanks for your advice (2.00 / 2)

"Take a look at the EV map on this site.  What does that tell you?  "

Nothing because it's missing one fact.  Right now, they're asking the question, "If Clinton were to be the nominee tomorrow, who would you vote for?"  The problem is that doesn't address the fact that to make her the nominee without doing any of the steps I suggest above, she'd have to win a bloody convention fight that would piss off large swaths of the Democratic electorate.  Moreover, right now the Republicans are ignoring her while both Clinton and McCain are piling up on Obama.  Neither of those would be true in November.

Look at her lead in the polls in those states, the ones that give her this electoral college victory.  They're narrow.  Clinton has a 1 point lead in Florida, a 3 point lead in Ohio, a 3 point lead in Washington, a 1 point lead in Oregon, a 1 point lead in Missouri.  Any movement at all towards McCain, any softening at all towards Clinton and she'd be in huge trouble in a general.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (none / 0)

Using your logic: Clinton is still holding narrow leads inspite of so much primary hatred towards her and character assasination by Obama campaign. Once she becomes the nominee, many will fall in place because they are "large swaths of the Democratic electorate". Will Obama come out and campaign for her? That will take care of the "large swaths of the Democratic electorate".


by Sandeep on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (none / 0)

Psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud, and for this reason, it is sometimes referred to as "Freudian Projection".


by Fairy Tale on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (2.00 / 2)

so the electoral maps created on MYDD are totally unbiased. Right?


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:35:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (none / 0)

Ha! Lots of cherry picking.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (2.00 / 2)

If you cannot see that Hillary is behind in this race with ground to make up, then yes this diary is full of flaws.  But Obama is up by a decent amount of delegates, and the only way super delegates will vote en mass for her, is if she can convince some of Obama's support that she is the best candidate.  If  she can't, the super delegates are not going to risk     mass chaos by overturning Obama'a pledge delegate lead.  That's why this diary is correct in that Hillary must make up major ground in NC to show she can cut into Obama's base while making major gains in delegates in other primaries.


by reggie23 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (none / 0)

And unless the money continues to flow as was reported immediately after Pennsylvania, Clinton lacks the resources to make the kind of push in North Carolina that she needs in order to be competitive.


by ER Doc on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for your advice (none / 0)

I'll tell you what the EV map on this site tells me. It tells me that Jerome is cherry-picking the numbers again.

He has Clinton winning MO while the pollster.com average has McCain winning 48.2-46.

He has Clinton winning IA while the pollster.com average has McCain winning 48.9-41.7.

He has Clinton winning FL while the pollster.com average has McCain winning 45.1-42.3.

He has Clinton winning WA while the pollster.com average has McCain winning 45.2-44.2.

He's not quite as bad with the Obama numbers but he's screwed up NV and NH. (Of course, you don't have to ask which way he screwed them up, do you?)

The one thing I have learned over the past couple of months is that Jerome isn't very good with math.


by kjblair2 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

The only thing keeping hillary alive right now are the Repugs. They salivate at the thought of running against her. So it's only the conservative commentators on the MSM who keep her even remotely relevant.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:23:22 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

"One in ten voters say they changed party registration to vote in this year's Pennsylvania primary.  Ten percent of the vote is huge.  That would be five times the past high for a crossover vote with a closed primary.  That's an absolutely huge number -- and once again, ladies and gentlemen, that is Operation Chaos," - Rush Limbaugh, one of the Clinton campaign's most important supporters.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th e_daily_dish/2008/04/quote-for-th-23.htm l


by wrb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

And Obama won amongst those people who changed affiliations last month. In his case, it's genuine crossover because he is our Messiah, who cant do no wrong.

And the old time Democrats, who voted for Clinton in large swaths (more than 70%), they are suddenly Repugs. The Reagan democrats, the blue collar workers, the seniors and the womens who have been part of Democratic party for many many yars, they are suddenly Repugs. Most of them didnt vote for Bush but they are suddenly Repugs.

There is a limit to spreading nonsense. But I feel it is easy for some people.


by Sandeep on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

Of course the Reagan democrats are not suddenly Repugs. As their name points out, they were Repugs a long time ago already.


by Fairy Tale on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

I think you're confused.

The media has quite clearly explained the scenario to us:

If Republicans vote for Obama in Democratic primaries, it's because his hope and change have convinced them that his way is far better.

If Republicans vote for Clinton in Democratic primaries, it's because she's the far weaker general election opponent, and because they want to prolong the Democratic campaign season.

In summary:

GOP for Obama? AWESOME!

GOP for Clinton? AWFUL!

>>end sarcasm


by mrstas on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Math (2.00 / 1)

Obama will go to the convention with a lead of at least 100 PDs. At present there are about 300 uncommitted SDs. Hillary will need at least 200 of them to win.

How does she pull that off in the Democratic Party when she has alienated blacks, party members from "flyover" states and when she doesn't have the full support of labor. What constiuency would give her the kind of boost she will need at the convention, presuming it is not settled by then?


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:33:16 PM EST

Re: Math (2.00 / 0)

"At present there are about 300 uncommitted SDs."

Actually about 60 of them are add ons, so it's close to 200 pledged.  


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:34:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (none / 0)

How does he pull it off when he has pissed off Latinos, Asians, Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, Lesbians, Gays, older women, working class whites, non college educated youth? This works both ways.


by DaleA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:07:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (2.00 / 2)

And what exactly has he done offensive to these people?

I know exactly why we latte sipping educated rural naive male elite cultists who admire rev Wright are offended, but those you list?


by wrb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (2.00 / 2)

I don't see how he's done any of that, but, okay. Isn't Clinton, for instance, associated with DADT and DOMA?

He won heavily places like Wisconsin, Virginia. Go figure. No working-class whites there.

Non-college educated youth? Really, do you pull these numbers out of y- uhh, thin air?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why would Blacks be offended (2.00 / 0)

by the caricature of the Black Church and the trial by sound bite of Rev. Wright?


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (2.00 / 0)

My gay and lesbian friends love Obama. He is the only candidate who talks about gays and lesbians in his speeches.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:54:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gay Support? (none / 0)

The lesbian/gay community here in Philly is pretty solidly behind Hillary.

BO refuses to give an interview to local gay newspapers and is, as he himself admits, uncomfortable with gay people. He also has several anti-gay operatives working for his campaign. (McClurkin, Meeks, etc.)

I called his campaign offices to ask if he would get rid of them or at least disassociate himself and his campaign from them and they said "No."

The Clinton campaign has done much here in Philly -- including having Chelsea campaign in the gay neighborhood several times. Hillary's loyalty to the lesbian/gay community is well known and it is returned by the community to her.


by cuppajoe on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (2.00 / 1)

It's funny you say that, because I went to see a number of the candidates in NH, and Hillary was the only one who brought up any gay/lesbian issue at any rally I was present at.  As she was talking about difficulty in kids affording college, and other issues, she brought up teen suicide, and the high incidence of suicide for gay teens.  I hadn't heard any other candidate bring up that issue, but since my (lesbian) cousin did commit suicide as a teen, it really resonated with me.


by AnnC on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Math (2.00 / 0)

And Obama only needs about 100 SDs. Hillary is the one who needs overwhelming support from the SDs.


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

1 and 2 are impossible for Senator Clinton......the rift with the AA community is wide and will take HER years to repair if she can do it at all.....she would have to muzzle bill.

3,4, and 5 are up to the candidate but I dont see her doing any of them.

(I can't tell, is this diary a snark written by an Obama supporter? If it is...good job!)


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:34:11 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

It's not a snark, but it is written by an Obama supporter.  I didn't say it was an easy path, but rather than say, "Look at the math," or, "Clinton is doomed and should drop out now!" I thought I'd try to figure out what it would take for her to win.  


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 3)

As I read your diary I found that several things weren't making sense to me.  Then I read that you thought Hillary should suspend her campaign immediately, and your diary made more sense.

So, keeping in mind where you are coming from, I will respond to your points:

(1) Hillary should reach out to African Americans (and to some extent has been doing this recently), although it should be pointed out that in most states, according to most polls, Barack and Hillary win roughly equal shares of the AA vote versus McCain (slight edge to Barack).  I suspect that Barack's real strength with the AA vote is not so much that Hillary would lose them to McCain, but that Barack would drive turnout to be higher.  The truth is that few Presidents have done more for the African American community than Bill Clinton, and it's a shame that his opponent's political campaign has worked so hard to tarnish his reputation.  I don't think that serves the longterm interests of either the party or the community, but it certainly gave the Obama campaign the edge it needed to work through this primary.

(2) I think folks in touch with Hillary's campaign understand what is happening in NC, and what the plan is there, and I'll leave it at that.

(3) I somewhat agree with you - including MI votes in the totals for popular votes is misleading.  But, on the other hand, if her opponent worked hard to prevent a revote, perhaps she feels she is now within her rights to count the votes as they were cast.  As you may have read, it looks like Clinton has won MI delegates nearly 60/40, thanks to some short-sighted thinking on Barack's part.  However, I continue to support a revote in MI as the most fair, most clear solution that is in the best interest of both sides.

(3.1) This was the one I didn't get (along with your NC remarks) until you confessed that you wanted Hillary out of the race.  This messaging is working well for her, on a variety of levels.

(4) The frustrating reality is that neither candidate is going to have an overwhelming metric.  Our primary process lacks clarity and I hope will be reformed before we do this again.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:43:16 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

Actually I don't want her out at this point.  There's only 6 more weeks left of voting and after NC/IN, there's so few delegates left and there's 3 strong Obama states left that I'm perfectly fine with playing this out until June.

This was an intellectual exercise for me.  Suppose Clinton hired me to shape her campaign and told me that I'd get $10,000,000 if she got the nomination.  What advice would I give her.  This is it.

As for (1), she can't push the Wright issue.  She did it once and it killed her.  She needs to stay quiet there.

(2) I think she's doing some of what I suggested, but I still get a feeling that she's holding back out of fear that a loss there would be seen as defining if she devotes resources to it.

(3) I also think a revote is fair, but I don't know how it could be done now since there's no party registration in MI.

(3.1) One word - Wisconsin.  She tried the debate argument there and it killed her.

(4) Obama still is going to have the case that he did better than Clinton in the primaries as a whole.  That's a huge hurdle to overcome.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

(1) Did I mention Wright?  Nice try. :)

(4) I think this is a lot more fluid than folks would like to think.  There is a reason Dean made a statement yesterday that he thinks the focus will be on what has happened in the last 10 contests, and that it will be about electibility more than popular vote or pledged delegates.


by bobbank on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:59:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

1) You didn't but Clinton brought it up with SDs and it got out to the public.  That pissed off a LOT of AA's.

4) And that's why Clinton has to win NC.  Otherwise the last 10 are (depending on whether you count Guam):

(1) Obama won Mississippi
(2) Clinton won Pennsylvania
(3) Obama won North Carolina
(4) Clinton won Indiana (giving it to her for the benefit of the doubt)
(4 a) Something happens in Guam and no one notices
(5) Clinton won West Virginia
(6) Clinton won Kentucky
(7) Obama won Oregon
(8) Clinton won Puerto Rico (again giving it to her)
(9) Obama won Montana
(10) Obama won South Dakota.

How will this 5/5 split decide anything unless someone steals a state?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

Hillary supporters seem blind to the racism that seems so obvious to the rest of us.

Hillary's passive-aggressive acceptance of the the smearing of Rev Wright are seem as blatant and ugly racism by her, personally.. Expecting it to be forgiven unrealistic. she damaged her electability terribly- fatally in my opinion.


by wrb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

"it's a shame that his opponent's political campaign has worked so hard to tarnish his reputation."

Don't blame the Obama campaign... Bill Clinton did that himself... and he keeps sticking his foot in his mouth again and again!  He should have known better!  They are still race baiting in IN telling voters that you can vote for whomever you like for whatever reason, if you like their looks or their hair.  Every lawyer in the world knows that is secret code for selecting by race.  It's used in jury selection all the time... The Clinton campaign is giving voters with misgivings over voting for a black candidate a free pass to let their discomfort rule their vote.  That's not very Democratic, really.  

In addition, they've thrown the black vote under the bus.  There was absolutely NO outreach in Pittsburgh or Philly by the Hillary campaign.  They've decided that they don't count and are forgetting about them...

As for the revote in MI, Obama's surrogates did not fight it... both Hillary supporters and Obama supporters in the legislature said it couldn't be down within the bounds of civil rights law and fair elections law... the only way to do it would be a firehouse caucus, to which Hillary objected greatly... so if anyone stopped the revote in MI it was Hillary's campaign.


by LordMike on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:00:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

When Bill told a Philly radio station that the Obama campaign had played the race card against him, he was trying to prompt white resentment, the usual anti-affirmative action sort of thing one sees, but usually by Republican candidates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

I just want to comment on your point on AA vote.  I agree that African Americans will not vote for McCain.  And you were somewhat alluding to it, but I think that AA turnout will be very low in November if Hillary is selected and she is still down by a sizeable amount in pledged delegates (I'm not counting FL and MI delegates, because realistically, neither will the AA community if those delegates are used to close the gap and justify her win.)  

Now I'm not going to argue that the Clintons are racist, because they are not.  But the campaign made a political blunder when Bill Clinton talked about Jessee Jackson winning in South Carolina and Ferrarro talked about Obama being lucky.  The same way Obama made a dumb mistake by generalizing middle/lower class white voters in Penn.  You can say that Obama has tarnished the Clintons' relationship with the AA community. But what did you expect when Clinton compared Obama to Jackson.  It was an ill-fitted attempt to categorize Obama as the black candidate.  Why didn't Clinton just compare Obama to Edwards, who just 4 years ago had won the South Carolina primary but wasn't the nominee.  Same with Ferraro.  No matter what you thought what her words meant, calling a presidential candidate lucky because he's black just wasn't a smart political move.      

It goes both ways though.  Obama now has a problem with middle/low class white voters. When Obama unfortunately used the "cling to guns and religion" quote, the Clintons/media jumped on it and framed Obama as an elistist who looks down at those people.  Now I understand why the quote would affend that group, but do you honestly think that Obama is an elitist that looks down this group? And if so, do you honestly believe that Obama will promote policies that would somehow help the black community but supress the middle/lower class white community?  I hope not.   Democrats for years have been fighting to unite these two groups because their economic interests are so similar.      

However, it is politics, and just as the Clintons' relationship with the AA community has been unfairly tarnished, so has Obama's view of the middle/lower class whites.  The difference is, at least Obama is trying to convince this group that he does represent their interests.  Unfortunately, I believe the Clintons have completely given up on garnering AA support probably until after a nominee is picked. And no matter who is nominated, both will have to work hard to gain support of these groups in order to win in November.      

       


by reggie23 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

All McCain would have to do is use the divide to his advantage- I think Clinton doesn't "have" any Demographic consistently like Obama does with African-Americans- and rail against Clinton for dividing the Democratic party and saying "Hey, we understand how important you are in deciding the election. Work with us, and we'll make sure issues that are important to you are addressed."

Remains to be seen how well it could work- but it might work extremely well. And he could easily use that same argument towards independents, as well.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

"Clinton is playing to not lose now"

You actually have to have a LEAD to be in that situation, so that really doesn't apply to Hillary...  Obama has stated that he's playing not to lose at the moment, which isn't good for him either.  In politics, as in football, playing not to lose almost guarantees you not to win.


by LordMike on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 01:51:39 PM EST

How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

Prove that he can win working class votes in IN, KY, WV and Puerto Rico.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:39:29 PM EST

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

What, Wisconsin, Virginia, Maryland, Iowa, etc, etc, working-class votes didn't count? Did we kick them out of the union, and now only PA and OH ever counted?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

I know as a white working class voter in Washington, he easily has my vote.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

Yeah, right. Obviously, you're from Washington, and you voted for Obama, so you probably founded Starbucks.

Go back to your gloomy, rainy weather and the Pike Place Fish Market and fling frozen cod at people.

;)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

Not this weekend man, 70 and sunny.  Woohoo! I have to get away from this damn computer and go see what that big, glowing, orange orb in the sky is.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

Just got back from softball practice.  Man it's nice.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

More cherry picking!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Obama Can Win the Nomination (none / 0)

But it's so delicious!


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

Let them go right to the end of the Primary in PR.  Everyone in every state should have a say in the nominee in fact it would be great not to know the winner until every state had a vote.  If the Democratic Party wants the Primary over with then next time have all the states vote within three months.  The Tour de France goes the entire distance even if there is already a winner!  Maybe it's just that Obama's supporters can't go the distance?


by orionwest on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 02:58:29 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

There is something personal to gain from finishing the Tour De France at all.  Coming in second in the nomination race is pointless and damages party unity.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For Hillary to win- (none / 0)

Offer Obama the VP slot and her full throated support in 2016... and promise to keep Bill as far from the White House as possible (I think he and Obama might just kill one another.)

I'm not sure if it would work (truth be told it probably wouldn't,) but I think it would, after the initial shock, please most of the party.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:24:46 PM EST

She has already won... (none / 0)

...the most important states. Just look at the front page of this site at the electoral maps. Hillary is way ahead of McCain by 34 EVs.

As Pat Caddel said, the SDs are not about to commit political suicide. They're going to pick the person who is best equipped to defeat McCain in the fall. Right now, that's Hillary, hands down.

She doesn't need to win NC but keeping it down to a single digit win for O would be nice. A tie in IN would be fine, too, but Hillary may well win that one.

Winning a bunch of caucuses and red states doesn't help much if you're trying to win a GE. Winning important swing states is where it's at.


by Nobama on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:25:50 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 0)

She just needs to win every state to come by huge margins, a time machine, and a lot of people willing to suspend reality and believe every thing they are told.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:41:57 PM EST

Re: How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (2.00 / 0)

Oh, and it helps to have goal posts on wheels so we can move them quickly and easily.

But most important, it helps to be soundly in debt, and not support democratic candidates for governor.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How Clinton can win the nomination (seriously) (none / 0)

If these "Why can't Obama seal the deal?" things come up and people start actually believing these drummed up McCain/Hamas stories, plus maybe a few more lethal attacks, she could come out on top.  

To tell you the truth, I don't get the whose more electable argument, b/c anything can happen in the general.  Any scandal can come out about either candidate and for the most part, there really is no way to foresee that or what the ramifications of it will be.  


This administration is not sinking. This administration is soaring! If anything, they are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg!
by venavena on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:35:41 PM EST


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